Greetings, Mr Weed.

Yes, fun swinging beginning. I'm totally with you on being happy to listen to just the swing throughout ie no metal. But you know what I'm like and I constantly feel compelled to do stuff that's different and hopefully something I haven't really heard before. So, the metal middle could be removed as its own separate track but then I wouldn't have jazz metal and I'm pleased that I've finally managed to pull that odd merger off.

It was really coming up with that evil synth horn sound around 2:55 that I decided it must go into proper badass metal.

It has to return to the smooth stuff around 6:00. Mostly because I just had more of it and didn't want to wait too long to get to the heavy shit. I could have done, say, smooth swinging for 6 mins and then a couple of minutes of heavy. But making them more integrated I find more fun.

You may be interested to know that all the clean guitar playing (ie everything other than the metal middle) was done in one single 11 min take, which I then extensively edited and moved around and layered where necessary. I simply found that I'd done everything I needed in that one take and didn't need to bother picking the guitar up again (except for the heavy shit). It's this type of approach that I've suggested many times for you to try though I doubt you will as you're probably too set in your ways.

So, you still get to do a single take but you then chop it up a lot more to come up with unusual stuff. If I find a cool riff in that long take, I might copy and repeat it a few times and then get other instruments to play the same/a similar thing. This really is how I compose! Just jamming with good riffs and fills over 8-16 bar loops and then seeing what good stuff comes out and building everything up.

"well programmed softer style drums with just the right amount of meat..."

I think you might be referring to the penultimate section starting around 7:30 where I bring back the emphasis on the tritone and metal but without any guitar or banging drums. That's an attempt to give a metal feel to jazz but without the distortion or smashing drums. Rhodes gets distorted again there (wah too). I also use a snare in that section from an EZ kit which is supposed to be for drum 'n' bass. Quite a distinctive sound and not heard anywhere else in the track.

"have to confess this flew by"

That has been said quite a few times on my lengthy tracks and pleases me. Probably something to do with the number of changes and constant new developments. Very important for me not to have a boring moment. If something's dragging I either shorten it or just add more elements (normally the latter, plus lengthening things when the new elements present even more options).

Thanks for your thoughts.

Hi.

Unique is very much what I go for with pretty much every track I make.

Mike Patton has already been mentioned (I'm a big respecter of his work though don't listen to much of it) so I probably need to go check out some more. I haven't heard 'The Girls of Porn' so that might be a good place to start in his extensive back catalogue.

A groovy sound is what I almost always go for, partly because it brings the best out in my instrument playing. I'm a little lost without an at least half decent groove. An excellent one is hugely inspiring and allows me to do so many different types of playing. You can throw anything at a good groove and, with a little (or a lot of) work, you can usually make it all work.

I suspect this is smoother (ie in the smooth sections) than Patton stuff as he is more on the bizarre and experimental side of things whereas I don't like things to get too freaky and uncomfortable. I'm not making soundtrack music to accompany other events (ie on-screen). I'm making music to be listened closely to on its own. So, it has to all be enjoyable and stuff that's either too weird, boring, repetitive or annoying has to be gor rid of.

Thanks for your thoughts. I have many other strange genre mergers and creative trips on the site.

If you would like to hear perhaps my craziest genre-merging track, check the following adventurous little beast, called Way Beyond Wrong. Here's the track description:

"Probably the greatest banj-metal-hiphop-jazz joint ever. With lead saxophone, house bass, rock and metal guitars, Eastern banjo, jazz and hip hop drums and a tasty dose of drum and bass thrown squarely in your face. You can headbang or throw some body-poppin hippity-hoppity shapes to this mofo, for real. A lot of genres covered in 7 minutes so hopefully the time will fly by. And, yes, there really is acoustic banjo as a lead instrument on top of some crunching and crashing metal guitar and drums. Long live Banj Metal"

http://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/145971

Jazetal greetings.

Not seen your name before on here.

Hard exactly to say why jazz and metal are supposed not to work. Maybe because musicians from those worlds are seen as very different, though I guess long before you had metal, jazz was the scene in which to be somewhat outrageous and take lots of drugs and alcohol etc. Though not one in which you had an ugly, unartistic mess of tattoos (that seems to be pretty much every genre of music and area of society these days).

But it's very rare that you get a jazz instrument (other than drums or bass guitar, obviously) in a metal band. Here I've got distorted Rhodes in my metal as well as an evil synth horn. So, two jazz-related instruments mixed in with the metal. You don't really get much heavy, distorted guitar in a jazz setting. Or metal kits smashing cymbals and doing furious double kick work (also here). So, aside from jazz-metal being rare, it seems that you hardly ever get the different components entering each other's musical worlds. Though I do know of a proper metal band whose lead instrument really is piano (not distorted). A very good piano player too.

One exception would be some of the more avant garde modern noisy jazz bands in which they have atonal screeching sax playing and so on (not my kind of thing). But they rarely have any heavy guitar. It's more "freaky jazz" than jazz-metal but still heading towards the more extreme side of things.

Yes, the dissonances are kind of fun and there's a big emphasis in here on the tritone (or flattened fith), hence the title. I'm mostly about trying to find beautiful sets of notes as I try to keep everything melodic. But, when you get it right, there can be a certain beauty in dissonance and weirdness. I find it helps if you make it groovy.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and I'm glad the track never got boring.

I'd rather be bad than bland.

And finally the Cru-Deity passes comment on this jazz-metal monster. And some urine. Nice to know.

One of my favourite Evisma comments was on my track Valvedriven regarding some badass riffage: "Anus devastated through shit speed". So perhaps you got off lightly here.

The evils synth horn around 2:55 has some anal harmonics added after I smuggled proprietary software out of Guantanamo Bay and modified it. It was intended for "enhanced interrogation procedures" but didn't quite work as they hadn't hit on the jazz-metal formula. I guess they're DOD scientists, not musicians.

I thought you'd appreciate the opening single spooky synth note and then restrained swing cymbally stuff before the groove gets going properly. Good to hear first couple of mins flew by.

"dark and bitter and groovy and spooky"

Yes, all of those except for bitter. More joyously evil than bitter.

"warm metal jets" is a term I like. Not thought of that before.

4:12 down to the bass and it sounds really ominous and dark there. A Rhodes chord and we're back into face being smeared into concrete. That's a Valvedriver phrase and he should indeed like this. Gotta be dark enough (in places) for him.

5:52 just simplish return to smooth groove jazz. I had more of it so it had to return. Mostly because I wanted to get the metal in earlier on rather than all jazz for 5 mins and then into metal for a couple.

7:30 one of my Nomad breakdown tricks there. I sometimes really struggle to join sections together. Many times I've eventually made it work but sometimes I just decide to have a short pause, let the delay ring out and then go back into a fat beat. Also helps break up my beat heavy tracks a little, giving the listener a brief rest.

I hope you noticed that Rhodes is distorted in this at various points. Not sure I've heard Rhodes metal before. Piano metal, yes.

7:31 back to big emphasis on the tritone. This end section could have crushing guitar but I left it out to allow Rhodes and bass guitar to do most of the work. Chillout dark jazz-metal there, all topped off by a massive metal fill at 8:16. New snare too.

This is definitely jazz-metal, not metal-jazz but now you've encouraged me to do the latter so will have to do a metal track lurching into jazz. Kind of the opposite of this one.

You should form a gang/band - The Cru Crew. Or maybe the Too Cru Crew.

Thanks for the words, as always, and glad you enjoyed the jazetal.

OK, you dirty old animated rat.

Here's what I get from your comment:

You laughed your fucking ass off* and it was my track description that you found funny. Then there's a reference to, I think, Splinter, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles' guru, who would supposedly also say that the track description laughs out loud. And you find either the track or the track description epic!!!

Thanks for the music feedback.

*Hope you can manage to reattach it.

Salut.

Il n'y ont pas des problemes avec ton anglais. C'est en fait presque parfait.

Anyway, you've got to have a bit of humour when it comes to jazz metal as it's kind of a joke idea for a genre merger. I believe I have done it justice and not made it a ridiculous thing but it could so easily go very wrong.

I know what you mean about the Patton/Fantomas thing. I very much respect Mike Patton and the million bands and side projects he has though I can't say I listen to much of what he makes. I think the last thing I really listened to was an album/group/project called Lovage. Fantomas and Tomahawk are a bit weird for me and I try hard not to make stuff bizarre, with good melody and groove always being the most important things.

I guess you were shrieking along during the heavy middle section rather than the more chilled out jazz.

Congratulations on your first Looperman comment after joining five years ago. It really is your first comment. I guess there is mostly HipHopDanceRnBDubstep stuff though there are also quite a few proper songs on here. I don't really do songs, just creative long-form instrumental explorations that are really psychedelic jams that are then very tightly edited and controlled.

I do a large range of music (jazz, funk, metal, blues, electro, hip hop, d'n'b, metal, dub etc) and like to get into some heavier shit now and again. Here are just a few other examples for you to check out:

The Bigger The Fatter The Better

http://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/155188

Valvedriven

http://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/163181

Debt Black Hole

http://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/146806

Happy listening...

Regreetings.

Yes, I probably would blend rap and polka together if I liked polka (it's sort of OK, I guess) and if I had any raps to use.

I only merge genres I like and can just about manage to play. I have many more crazy, half joke ideas for genre mergers though I doubt I'll be doing all of them as I'm not really capable. Or I don't want to.

For instance, one joke genre name I came up with is 'grabba' - a cross between grime and gabba. But I don't like either genre so I won't be the one to do it. But I would like to make 'cuntstep' - a merger of country and, you guessed it, dubstep.

Yes, this is a pretty cool-looking waveform, though I'm not quite sure why. Seems nicely balanced and has a pleasing shape. I don't know if waveform shape has any real relationship to music quality but I can think of one example.

Most tracks I see on here that are horribly loud solid blocks of toothpaste turn out to be shit. Seriously - if I see one of those, these days I tend not to even press play as it's almost always the same unimaginative, histrionic, brickwall-mastered crap.

I did actually look up the Eagle Nebula so now know what it is but can't see how it looks like this waveform. Not to worry.

If you would like to hear perhaps my craziest genre-merging track, check the following adventurous little beast, called Way Beyond Wrong. Here's the track description:

"Probably the greatest banj-metal-hiphop-jazz joint ever. With lead saxophone, house bass, rock and metal guitars, Eastern banjo, jazz and hip hop drums and a tasty dose of drum and bass thrown squarely in your face. You can headbang or throw some body-poppin hippity-hoppity shapes to this mofo, for real. A lot of genres covered in 7 minutes so hopefully the time will fly by. And, yes, there really is acoustic banjo as a lead instrument on top of some crunching and crashing metal guitar and drums. Long live Banj Metal"

http://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/145971

Greetings.

Unexpectedly good is always a good thing, I think. Probably better than predictably good. You've got to be a little nervous if you hear "hey, it's jazz-metal" as that stands a good chance of being fairly awful.

I have no idea if jazz-metal is a subculture. Most probably not and I doubt it will catch on.

I wonder what sort of clothing jazz metallers would wear. Maybe a combo of swinging 20s smart clothing and more modern black leather, tattoos (not that they're clothing) and long hair etc. Hard to say, really.

Rhodes is perhaps the star of the early portion of this track (along with clean, grooving guitar). And then the metal guitars take over in the middle. But I also combine distorted Rhodes with the guitars (and synth horn) at various points. Sometimes disortion, wah and other delays on the Rhodes just to crunch it up a bit more.

I'm pretty sure there also isn't much Rhodes metal. That instrument and that genre never seem to go together (except here).

Thanks for your thoughts.

If you would like to hear another unusual recent metal track from me, check out Valvedriven here:

http://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/163181

Hi. The intro before the Rhodes and cymbals arrive on 0:21 is just one evolving synth instrument, no sitar. I think it's also just one note. I automate a control to make the sound change and open up to become brighter (and remind you of a sitar). Yes, good for ambient meditation music.

Flutes are not used in many of my tracks, just 3 or 4 that I can think of right now. Yes, usually in the background though in Fly Yes Land No they are lead somewhere around 9 mins (flute metal). The Ozrics have more lead flute as they had an actual flute player (who I've hung out with a few times).

"vocoded voice" around 1:19 is filtered EQ swept violin, a sound have used in many tracks eg A Little Bit Of Infinity, The Bigger The Fatter The Better, Right Place Wrong Century etc.

Yes, synth horn at 2:55 has a very evil sound and I automate the effects (and MOD wheel) to make it more aggressive.

No, not quite the same sequences during the heavy sections as the riffs change quite a bit. MrWolf thought the metal section was very different, as if I had another heavy track that I just stuck inbetween two jazz sections. The metal section still had the emphasis on the tritone but the basslines do change as well.

I knew you'd like the jazz and also thought you wouldn't know what to say about the metal because you don't really know about that genre. Yes, hopefully better than most of the metal on the site. Probably a bit more unusual.

Rhodes playing at the end is maybe too short but it seems to flow comfortably. And I am trying to make shorter tracks these days. I hope you noticed that there is quite a bit of distorted Rhodes in heavy sections eg 3:04 and also 7:41. And there's a wah effect somtimes on the Rhodes.

Good luck with your monosynth.

I would like to collaborate with people but most of all in person, not online, so that we can share the experience and talk about ideas and not have to exchange emails. And so that I know who I am dealing with as I have had many collaboration disappointments. So I don't really look to collaborate online with people though I suppose I am still open to the idea. Maybe I will think of something to suggest to you. I could perhaps send you the start of a track that I am really having trouble taking any further to see if you could add anything I like (probably). Some good playing might then inspire some good playing from me.

Just an idea.

Greetings, Patricia.

I know what you mean about the 60s swinging jazz theme tune after a minute or so. I'm not sure why that is but you're the second person to remark on it. Evisma though it was a bit like The Pink Panther theme tune. Much darker than that but not as catchy.

Then it does morph into jazz entirely from a different family. Perhaps the black sheep of the family. Or an orphan. Or the bastard son tearing shit up, giving the family a bad name. I think that will do for family analogies.

Anyway, you liked it so that's good.

Oh, and I'm not sure any sort of jazz is used for Mr Bean soundtracks but then I haven't seen the show in a long time and didn't bother with the film.

Take care.

OK. Doesn't really matter.

Thanks, man.

I don't really know what "DAT SOUNDWAVE DOE" means. Maybe something to do with the slightly interesting-looking waveform. Hard to know. But I do know a doe is a deer. Doe a deer a female deer.

The chill jazz groove stuff that is returned to around 5:50 originally came earlier but I wanted to get the metal in a bit sooner so shifted stuff around, as I always do (I don't really plan my "compositions" out in advance). Still, I agree the metal could arrive earlier as it takes a few mins to get to that heavy shit.

All the same, I like to think the swinging jazz grooves before the metal are interesting enough for real jazz metal fans (who are they anyway?) to be prepared to wait a bit. This ain't pop music so there's no getting to the chorus. Not gonna happen.

I'd like to make some other seemingly incompatible genres work together. No idea if/when I'll manage that. But I've done it before so I like to think I'll do it again.

Thanks again.

Thanks. I try hard to make interesting music that I've never heard made before.

It's perhaps just a few synth touches (eg the very first intro sound) that give this a slightly futuristic feel. Otherwise, I guess there's a lot of old roots jazz and blues (and metal, to some extent) in here.

Good to hear you liked the mix as well. I think most of the sounds are fairly clear though I'm sure it could be beter still.

My only extremely minor disagreement is regardig your 'heavy rock' term. I'd say this contains extremeley heavy rock ie metal. No big deal.

Thanks again.

Yo.

Yeah, I guess a bit less psychedelic - perhaps just a different type of psych vibe rather than my more usual beautiful, funky psych stuff. Darker and weirder this time though I never like to go too weird. Gotta keep it melodic and groovy.

I was really planning to disagree with you about the blues thing but I've listened more since your comment and thought hard about it and now partly agree. There is some cool blues playing from guitar (comes naturally to me) but I still hear the Rhodes as being much more jazzy. I have no idea how to play jazz or any other style as I'm a self-taught feel player who doesn't read music or really know any music theory. Give me a good swing groove and I can play in a jazzy way, otherwise I won't/can't.

I like the "jewelry" term. I guess my use of effects and stuff is a bit like jewelry. Hopefully effective and not just pretty adornments with no susbstance underneath.

" I just like it when people break the rules"

That's pretty much my aim with every track. I'm only really interested in creating something new that I can't hear anywhere else. Even if it's not brilliant, I can still be proud of its ambition and intent to do something different.

2:55 is where the big, evil synth horn sound comes in. I think that's what inspired the metal in this as that is a big, badass sound and just screamed "metal" to me. Well, that and the emphasis on the tritone (flattened fifth) in many parts of the track. See - I do know a tiny bit of music theory ie a few note names (oh, and major and minor scales, that's it).

No cello at 2:55. See my reply to Evisma about that so that I don't have to type it again. The new instrument is not gong too well, which is a shame (most expensive instrument I've ever bought but it does look nice) but hopefully it'll come alive when I get a bow. Only subtle cello in this track and it sounds more like double bass (as it's plucked).

" theremin sounding instrument" is a string part plus filtering and delays. Pretty evil and just playing the main horn theme. Haunting stuff. Also returns in the penultimate track section though Evisma didn't like it.

" definite ending, which we don't hear all the time from you."

Hey, you know that my tracks have definite endings. I still haven't done a fadeout. They don't have endings at all on Looperman when they're over 11 mins. But I almost always put a link up to the full thing elsewhere.

Yes, I think the mix on this pretty good. A rather beautiful-looking waveform (and you can clearly see where the metal is). I'm not quite sure why it looks like that but there seems to be some real balance in sounds or something. People who know more about the technicalities of audio might be able to explain it to me.

Take care and glad you like the jazetal.

Metallic greetings with a jazzy overlay.

I would not have you down as a jazetal (jazz metal) kinda dude. Then again, I don't know who I would have down as that, including myself. As usual, I'm just trying to make something I haven't really heard before.

Intro swell is decent though I spent ages on it (ie the length and getting the drop into the Rhodes right) but still don't feel that drop is quite right. Good intro sound though.

Don't quite understand your "non-keys" point. There's shitloads of keys playing in my stuff though perhaps it tends to have more of a programmed feel rather than conjuring up the image of someone sat playing a keyboard, as this track does. I've used Rhodes in loads of tracks and here it's me playing all of it plus a lot of correction and moving notes around afterwards. Maybe it has a more fluid live feel than my usual synth work.

I know what you mean about the Pink Panther. Some sort of 60s jazz theme going on there (from guitar) though I have no idea why.

2:55 is my evil synth horn. Doesn't sound too froggy to me but I know what you mean. All part of my unintentional skill (?) in making various creature sounds with synths. Yes, bass may well be too heavy there. Will check back, possibly readjust.

I don't know if you actually liked the metal in here, as you didn't say, but I'll just assume you did. I'd expect at least half a brick shat somewhere in that morass of riffage.

Cello playing is minimal in this one but you can hear it goin badass between 5:04-5:23. No one in the world will hear that distorted riffage as cello. 5:14 screechy slidey squeals.

Still struggling with cello, still not got a bow so mostly playing it as a double bass/guitar. It'll only come alive as a cello once I get bowing and get half decent at it.

Fretlessness is unforgiving on imprecise notes around where the fret would be. Thank Buddha, Allah and Mohammed I have lots of dots as fret markers. I don't understand how people get by without any markers. Exceptional accuracy required for any fast playing.

Yes, back swing chilling 5:53. Gotta return to the jazz. Could have had that section earlier but wanted to not take too long to get to the metal.

Sorry you didn't like the monster owl sounds. That's a rising pitch sample-based string instrument (violin maybe) not my cello playing. Can also be heard playing a haunting melody in the synth horn pre-metal section starting 3:14. Don't know if it also bothered you there.

Not sure if you liked my nice track bro (only expected you to like the heavy shit anyway) but thanks for the thoughts.

No dirt cheese, thanks. I don't eat regular cheese so adding dirt won't help.

P.S. Moved mostly back into house today. Nice having a sofa again. Shed music is over. Think I might come to miss it slightly, especially the sound of a rapid squirrel roof scurry...

Hi.

Yes, more dark swinging stuff could be just what the world needs. Maybe it will improve us as a species and encourage the aliens to finally make first contact with us:

"Hey, we were just waiting for you to make some really cool, dark swinging jazz metal before we accepted you into our universal club. Congratulations".

Jazz and metal are hard things to successfully combine and I'm not sure I've heard many people even try. Some that I have heard has been on the bizarre, weird, avant garde experimental side of things. But my music is nothing like that. There is one group that does really creative metal on top of a fast, swinging bass and drums platform. But their style is nothing like this one. It's also not bizarre, weird or avant garde.

They're called Diablo Swing Orchestra and their album The Butcher's Ballroom is well worth checking out.

I love that synth horn sound and find it quite evil. But a good type of evil, if that makes sense. So, the mischievous, playful devil rather than the nasty brutal one.

Thanks for you thoughts. I have no idea if I will make more jazz metal but it'll probably happen sometime. Many more genre crossovers to work on before then.

Here's a recent creative, very alternative metal track I made in honour of Looperman's Valvedriver. It's called Valvedriven:

http://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/163181

Jazzy greetings with a sprinkling of metal on top.

Yes, first few minutes, once the groove kicks in are a laidback, cool swinging stuff that I find very inspirational to play instruments to. My favourite thing about all the clean/undistorted guitar in the track is that it's a single 11 minute take that I then chopped up and moved around a great deal to get what I wanted. There was no need to add any other clean guitar parts as everything required was in those 11 mins.

Understated bass is the synth bass that gets much more powerful in the heavier parts. Very little bass guitar in the heavy sections - just one synth bass sound plus a few bass guitar fills at certain points.

I love that synth horn sound and it really said "pure wailing evil" to me so inspired the freaky, heavy vibe.

"is the heavy part maintaining the spirit of the initial part?"

I like to think it is. The track title is a reference to the tritone (or flattened fifth) note that has a very dark and evil sound, especially when played like this. You can hear it in many parts of the track, including the first Rhodes chord. There's an emphasis on it in the heavy sections too.

"Only the gods can answer."

And me.

I certainly didn't come up with the heavy stuff as a separate track and then stuck it inbetween the cool, swinging jazz sections. No: the metal drums are also almost all swung grooves, just like the jazzier, quieter drum kits. And it's the same synth bass sound heavy and quiet and the wailing strings can be heard both heavy and quiet. It's really all one track so I hope it doesn't sound like something heavy and unrelated in the middle. Once I get properly heavy, I do go off into various different riffs that sound quite unconnected to the rolling jazz. But that's just me exploring more and more riffs.

Bass at 6:41. When working on that, I thought of you and that you would like it. It's funkier than everything else so that's probably why it stands out to you.

7:31-8:19 is the return to the big emphasis on the tritone. So, that section is me doing metal in a chilled, jazzy way and with no guitar. I thought of adding it but it didn't seem necessary. Rhodes is nicely distorted there. And there's some groovy bass guitar underneath. See also 3:04 for distorted Rhodes.

Yes, more jazz than metal. That's because I'm better at playing chillout cool groove stuff than metal. And also rapid metal riffs don't take very long. Cool chillout groove playing lasts longer so that's why it has a longer running time in the track.

Thanks for your thoughts and glad you liked most of my jazetal (jazz metal).